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Autor: rolf.martens@comhem.se (Rolf Martens) (2008-01-28 11:18:49)
UNITE! Info #306en: A debate with Charles F. M. on "CPC(M-L)",
Canada, and on
Marxism
[Posted: 28.01.2008]
Note: The "UNITE! (etc) Info" posting series (1995-) advocates the
political
line of Marx, Lenin and Mao Zedong. For all items, see www.rolf-martens.com.
INTRO NOTE:
This recent rather brief public debate perhaps may interest others. It began
with Charles F. Moreiras putting some questions to me, in posting 1 of 4 of
those which Im reproducing below (on 19.01.2008), concerning certain things
which I had written earlier about the "CPC"(M-L)" in Canada and
also about the
earlier existing KPD/ML (NEUE EINHEIT) in Germany. (On the latter, see also
under that subject and under "Sender, Klaus" and "Group Neue
Einheit (Germany)"
in my homepage section "Subjects in postings".)
I replied to Charles and also to Nikogda Nichevo and to Josh (S R) - why this,
see below - in posting 2 of 4 in the below (on 26.01.2008), which also is at my
homepage as "News with brief comments" item 343.
Charles replied to me with posting 3 of 4 (27.01.2008).
And in my posting, in reply to Charles, 4 of 4 in the below (27.01.2008), I
said only:
"Thank you for this, Charles. I wont comment on it otherwise than to say
that
I stand by that analysis of mine of these matters which I sent last time, and
want to let others judge on the validity of our respective arguments."
Which indicated of course that I on my part wanted to conclude that debate, for
then, at least.
It naturally can be taken up again at some point later - if so, then most
suitably by me, perhaps, since it was Charles who had the last unanswered
arguments. But I would have nothing against Charles continuing it with a
further posting either. In that case, I might reply only after some delay,
depending on whether there were other matters which Id want to give higher
priority or not.
POSTING 1 OF 4 - CFM TO RM:
From:
Charles F. Moreira
Date:
Sat., 19 January 2008 10:42 GMT
To:
For the reaffirmation of Marxism-Leninism
Subject:
Re: [MLL] US Fascism - No Habeus Corpus for "Any Person" [Reply once
more to N.
N.]
Rolf,
[First quoting me:]
Now you, Nikogda, and Josh (see some earlier postings) assured me, and others,
that in Canada, there was "a really Marxist-Leninist party", the
CPC(M-L).
One brief look at its homepage however convinced me that that party is an
utterly Social-Democratic one. Which I have written too. Now both you and Josh
have later complained that I havent demonstrated this. And clearly, I havent,
in concrete details at least. But Ive already promised both of you that I
shall get back to you on this question, which - sorry, Nikogda - I do consider
a relatively unimportant one, compared to many other issues which I think are
more pressing at the moment.
But I do intend to keep that promise of mine. Only, please wait some more time
for this.
[Charles:]
If you believe the Communist Party of Canada (Marxist -- Leninist) is
"utterly
Social Democratic," why do you need to take so long to explain why?
Like its sister party in the UK, the Revolutionary Communist Party of Britain
(Marxist -- Leninist) which was also founded by Hardial S. Bains, the CPC (M-L)
has tailored the language in its publications to one more comprehensible to
workers, rather than the heavily convoluted language and ranting style used in
Workers Weekly in the UK in the mid-1970s and that is a sign of political
maturity.
In recent years, both parties have embarked on initiatives to gain more
influence and become a mass party through publications, initiatives, etc and
yes it participates in elections to serve as a platform to propagate its ideas
at this time of the ebb of revolution to prepare to move forward.
The parties are trying to move beyond their early base of students and
immigrant workers to include the rest of the working class and I believe they
have succeeded to an extent, though perhaps less so among the core blue-collar
working class.
Also, why the party you were involved in, the KPD/ML "degenerated" as
you so
claim and what M-L party or parties or groups are there worth talking about in
Sweden?
Charles
POSTING 2 OF 4 - RM TO CFM, NN AND J:
From:
Rolf Martens
Date:
Sat., January 2008 19:55 GMT
To:
modern marxism@yahoogroups.com
Cc:
MaoZeDong@yahoogroups.com, maoist@yahoogroups.com,mot krig@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Reply to Charles, Nikogda and Josh on the "CPC(M-L)" in
Canada and the
former "NE" in Germany
Also sent:
Date:
Sat., January 2008 19:56 GMT
To:
Charles F. Moreira
Cc:
Nikogda Nichevo
At my homepage www.rolf-martens.com Ive added today, under "News with
brief
comments":
Saturday, 26 January 2008 (NWBC 343) Reply to Charles, Nikogda and Josh on the
"CPC(M-L)" in Canada and the former "NE" in Germany
[Note, 28.01.2008: This NWBC item of mine was also sent to the Usenet
newsgroups alt.society.revolution, alt.politics.socialism.mao,
swnet.politik, eunet.politics, alt.politics.socialism,
alt.politics.radical-left, alt.activism, alt.politics.communism,
de.soc.politik.misc and alt.politics.india.communist, and to some other
individual e-mail addresses.]
2008-01-26, 18:15 GMT:
Hello Charles (Charles F. Moreira ),
You asked me, on 19.01, firstly:
"If you believe the Communist Party of Canada (Marxist -- Leninist) is
utterly
Social Democratic, why do you need to take so long to explain why?".
I had maintained this in a reply, even three weeks or so earlier, to Nikogda
Nichevo and to Josh (S R
), both
of whom had seemed to hold that that party, the "CPC(M-L)" was
"really a
Marxist-Leninist one".
And yes, sorry about my long delay in providing some concrete reasons, which I
did promise, for that contrary assessment of mine. It has been caused by my
giving some other things much higher priority. But here at last Ive gotten to
that point in my "need to do" list. Im sending this posting of mine
to Nikogda
and Josh too.
Secondly you asked me (Im quoting your entire posting further below, as an
appendix now),
"Also, why the party you were involved in, the KPD/ML degenerated as you
so
claim and what M-L party or parties or groups are there worth talking about in
Sweden?"
Actually, that then existing party in Germany which I was in close contact
with, in 1974-1990, was called, not "KPD/ML", but "KPD/ML (NEUE
EINHEIT)".
There were quite a number of parties in that country, in those days, which had
confusingly similar names. The one I was in contact with stood out sharply,
against all other parties in Europe and in North America calling themselves
"M-L", in that it really was a such, the only one in any of these
countries
that really, politically, corresponded to the enormous and - likewise -
brilliantly correct Communist Party of China at that time.
When writing this Im already guessing at some disbelief on your part, Charles,
Nikogda and Josh. Because probably none of you have ever seen or heard of
something even remotely like that "NE" - as Im abbreviating its name.
But Im
telling you now, there in the 20th century were three really important
political parties in the world: The Bolshevik one as led by Lenin and later by
Stalin (whose errors, no doubt, were considerably more serious than those of
Lenin or Mao Zedong), the even more enormous and successful CPC as led by Mao
Zedong and, yes, the always absolutely microscopic, and also rather
short-lived, "NE" as led by Klaus Sender (Hartmut Dicke). His, and
its,
eventual degeneration may be called, like those of those other and much bigger
and much better-known parties, "really a bit of hard luck - but lets try
again!". Among the existing experience, the ideological weaponry,
available to
any Marxism-interested "kids-ass" (Swedish expression, not really
rude) in the
world today, that of the earlier "NE" in Germany makes up a quite
vital part,
in my judgment.
But your question about that party, Charles, and that third one of yours too,
concerning (the likewise less important) parties in Sweden, I shall reply to a
little more in detail further below here. Now first about the
"CPC(M-L)" in
Canada.
And precisely for showing you (and others) what my approach has been when
assessing or trying to assess parties in other countries - trying to find some
which Marx adherents here in Sweden can unite with, on a party basis, if
possible, or perhaps at least on a united-front basis, then concerning one or
more of those questions which, in the world today, are of vital common
importance to the people in all countries - I rather recently made an html
version of an old "UNITE! Info" of mine, from 1998 (and now with some
new
address etc info added), in the form of my #076en-rep, "Periodicals info
to
Stec etc", of 21.01.2008. This is not least intended to be a kind of
appendix
to this present reply to you and to Nikogda and Josh.
Michael Stec, by the way, obviously lives in Canada, as Im guessing that
Nikogda and Josh may be doing too. My Info in 1998 was in reply to a request by
him for contributions by others to his project of collecting the names,
addresses etc of as many communist/leftist or purportedly communist/leftist
periodicals from around the world as possible. Michaels (present) homepage, at
http://www.geocities.com/capitolhill/7078/, which I think
looks rather nice - I
still havent investigated it further - has as programme lines at its top:
"Stecs Commie Pinko Homepage - Workers of the World Unite!". It could
be
interesting to hear what he may have to say about the "CPC(M-L)".
Looking at the website of that party, at http://www.cpcml.ca/, you first of all
find, in its programme, at http://www.cpcml.ca/Program/Program.html, nothing
about the necessity of proletarian revolution, of revolutionary war, or of that
partys perhaps adhering to the political line of Marx, Lenin and Mao Zedong,
which of course is a first requirement for any political party today.
You might say perhaps that there at least is a hint in that direction in its
very name, since many of those new parties which arose in the late 1960s as a
result (above all) of the Cultural Revolution in China, after the old earlier
communist ones had turned completely revisionist, had names of that same,
general type, with "M-L", "ML" or "ml" at the
end. But these things need to be
said expressly too. (And adhered to in practice, above all, of course, but a
party which doesnt even say them can be seen to be a bourgeois one already
because of that fact.)
Further: At the top of that programme which it has, the "CPC(M-L)"
does not say
"Proletarians in all countries, unite!" (the well-known call by Marx
and Engels
from 1847) or "Proletarians in all countries and oppressed people[s],
unite!"
(the likewise well-known later call by Lenin, and the most suitable in that
era, that of imperialism in which we still are living), or anything like that.
Instead it (the partys programme, from 1997) says: "Preparing for the 21st
Century: Stop Paying the Rich